[00:00:00] Christine: Mental health and wellness is a huge topic that is finally starting to be addressed in the military community. And here at the Milspouse Mastermind Show, we have been airing episodes that are about helping you become more knowledgeable about the challenges and more equipped to be able to support yourself, your fellow military spouses, and your loved ones.

[00:00:24] Today’s conversation is with Lissa Figgins, a former National Guard spouse, and now a mom to an active duty service member. Lissa is a time management coach and has built a business around helping women who feel pulled in all directions. But she reached out to us because her heart is for military spouses and, and she asked if she could share her story about living with someone who.

[00:00:51] Struggled and sometimes still struggles with the effects of PTs D I think it’s an important conversation for us to have because as she shares, she never thought that mental health was going to impact her family. She started learning more and gaining knowledge that she thought she was going to be able to use to help someone else.

[00:01:15] But it was her friends who ultimately supported her and helped her get the resources and tools that she and her husband needed. So you may never end up in this position that Lissa found herself in. But you will probably know someone who will walk this journey, and you can be that friend, that difference maker in their life. Lissa, welcome to the Milspouse Mastermind Show. I’m so excited to talk with you today.

[00:03:54] Lissa: It is so fun to be here and I love the technology lets us be in different parts of the world and yet get to have conversations like this and other people get to listen in. Right, exactly.

[00:04:02] Christine: It is one of my favorite parts of having a podcast is just getting to have these conversations and getting to hear people’s stories.

[00:04:11] So would you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your

[00:04:15] Lissa: background? Yeah, so I, my name is Melissa Figgins. It’s Melissa without the ME because it’s not about me. So I can remember. I’ve been married to my husband for 27 years and he is now retired. But he served in special forces. A lot of his career was in the National Guard and in the reserves.

[00:04:34] So I kind of had like my feet in two different places, right where. I was still living a civilian life and, and, and didn’t have the resources that maybe someone who’s on a, on a base has, you know, when he would deploy and different things would happen and stuff like that. So I’m a mom of three who are now all out of the nest.

[00:04:51] So for those of you with y little ones that you’re in that stage where the days feel long and the years feel fast yeah. Those long days do eventually, like, you know, they grow up and they move out and they do their own things. In fact, two of mine are following in their father’s footsteps and serving active duty as well.

[00:05:08] Which of course, you know, number one makes me proud. But I always joke with my husband, I blame you. And it keeps me on my knees, you know, it keeps me just re like remembering like, yeah, like this isn’t, they’re in God’s hands and re whatever job our, our career, our kids go into, right? But I think especially when they’re going into, into that.

[00:05:26] So yeah. So we’re in a different season of life right now where I’m not. Personally experiencing all these things, but I’ve been through a lot as a wife and now, you know, just going into the mom side of things and my oldest is getting married in a couple of months. Well, I’m sure

[00:05:40] Christine: that’s a different perspective.

[00:05:42] Lissa: It, yeah, and I think it’s even ways heavier on my husband’s heart because he knows like firsthand what they will experience. But my heart is really for like my future daughter-in-laws. So my oldest son is getting married. In a few months. And so it’s opened up a lot of good conversations about what is she stepping into, right?

[00:06:00] And here’s part of my story, which is very interesting. I did not know that I was going to be a military spouse. So when my husband and I got married, he had gone into the military in high school. So he was literally like a year or year and a half away from being done. And so he was just riding out the end doing his drill dates, you know, and that was gonna be it.

[00:06:19] And then nine 11 happened. And he just couldn’t sit by and not be serving. It’s just like, you know, his blood is red, white, and blue. So he got back in and it was, our youngest was literally turning one. In fact, I remember he had already left us, but he was still in the states and so we were able to drive to where he was.

[00:06:37] I remember having her birthday, her first birthday cake in the hotel so we could have one more time seeing him before he, you know, went to the other side of the world. So my dad often jokes. Like, I was not prepared. I did not know when I said I do 27 years ago, that that was going to involve being a military wife.

[00:06:54] And yet God knew, right? And like he, he you know, put the people and the things I needed in place. Even though I didn’t necessarily have those tools in my tool belt at the beginning.

[00:07:04] Christine: So what was that conversation like when he said, I’m, I’m going back in,

[00:07:09] Lissa: It wasn’t really a conversation. Well, it wasn’t a question.

[00:07:11] I’ll say that it was more of a statement yep, this is what I’m doing. And, but I knew him and I knew like, I’m not gonna hold you back. I’m not gonna let my fear or my insecurities or my comfort, you know, keep you from what you truly feel like God is calling you to do. So even though I knew, gosh, this is gonna involve a lot, and literally within I think two months of reenlisting, he had orders and then left like a month or two later.

[00:07:36] So it happened pretty fast getting back in and we didn’t ease into that life. It just kind of all of a sudden was in our laps, so. Mm-hmm. But that’s just where I had to trust God already had a plan, God already knew, and I just needed to, I, I, I didn’t wanna do anything to hold him back from what that was.

[00:07:52] Christine: What were the ages of your kids at the time?

[00:07:54] Lissa: Oh gosh. I can picture because I remember we went to Chicago for the sendoff that we did. And so I feel like our kids were, the boys were probably, I think our daughter was three, so the boys would’ve been maybe like eight and 10 at the time for of his first appointments.

[00:08:09] If I’m doing the math right, somewhere around there. Yeah. So not itty bitties, but you know, we were homeschooling at the time, so I, you know, became household six. I’m running a household, I’m running a homeschool. I’m, you know, trying to keep everybody, you know, where they needed to be and and make sure that I wasn’t you know, dropping myself and it’s a lot, it’s a lot on military wives to, you know, handle all those things and, you know, solo parent and, you know, solo a lot of things for a period of time.

[00:08:36] Christine: Well, and I would say it’s a lot for every military spouse, but especially I. If you are not connected, true to a base or some kind of support network. So really what did you do in that season?

[00:08:50] Lissa: I just buckled down and said, okay, this is, I guess what we’re doing, you know, and I just tried to live life as normally as possible.

[00:08:56] You know, like I, I didn’t make the, the reason that my husband wasn’t home, the excuse that I didn’t go to things and I didn’t do things. I still tried to be, you know, as involved as I could be at a healthy level, right? With family things, with extended family, with, you know, church and community and those types of things.

[00:09:13] You know, it was, it was interesting because people didn’t really get it. Like in the beginning everybody was really, oh, your husband just left, or whatever. But you know, when they deploy for nine to 12 months, people tend to kind of forget by month, maybe three, four, or five. My, my parents didn’t. Right. They, they always knew.

[00:09:28] But you know, so in the beginning you have a lot of support from the non-military community. But then I think people kind of just go back to their lives and forget, oh yeah, he’s still gone. Oh my goodness. How long has it been. You know, so a lot of it was just on my own, figuring it out. Every once in a while there’d be another wife or spouse, but we didn’t have podcasts like this.

[00:09:45] Like, if I would’ve had you in my ear, like, you know, bringing hope and light and, and wisdom and, and things like that, like I just, it would’ve been such a different experience. Oh, I

[00:09:55] Christine: totally agree. Yeah. Right. I think about as a new military spouse and all of the things that you don’t know and you’re trying to figure out, just to figure out even, who do I talk to about this?

[00:10:08] How do I find out and, and how do I be able to find a sense of purpose and hope and feel like I’m just existing and just trying to stay afloat, but. You can do more than stay af afloat, but, but to have those resources and to know that there is a place to turn to that’s gonna say, Hey, I’ve been down this road.

[00:10:33] It does get easier. You become stronger. You learn how to deal with this stuff, and it is absolutely possible. We never really know how we’re gonna get through something, but we just. And, and that’s what I think you’re saying. You know, you just, okay, this is, this is what it is, and then here we

[00:10:52] Lissa: go. But it’s always gonna be better if you’re not by yourself in that boat.

[00:10:55] Right. And we’ll kind of circle around to how that analogy ties into something else that’s going on in my world right now, but, I remember. So he was guard, right? But he would go and do training and there was an opportunity we had to move with him. And so we were actually near a military base. We were near one for about four months and then another one for about a year.

[00:11:13] And I remember like soaking up like, wow, you’re a military wife too, and you actually get this and your husband’s deployed before too, and maybe you’d have kids or you know, you’re figuring out what your role is like. That was really refreshing to have other people that there was this instant connection.

[00:11:30] Right, because not everybody gets, you know, what, what it’s like and understands the lingo and all those things. And I remember one of them, we were going to a church in the, near the base that we were at, and they were doing a bible study and it was a lot of military wives at the church. And so and then I jumped into this Bible study and it was called When War comes Home.

[00:11:49] And it’s all about like, Christ-centered, healing for combat veteran for combat soldiers. And I remember being there and I remember thinking at one point, like, I don’t think this is for me. Like my husband’s really strong mentally and physically. He’s doing fine even after the multiple deployments he’s had at this point.

[00:12:07] Like, I don’t, you know, I don’t think this is for me, but two things. One, I want the friendship, so I’m gonna keep coming. And two, I thought maybe this. What I’m gonna learn is for somebody else down the road, like, maybe this is not for me, but I’m supposed to hear this so I can encourage her someday, you know, down the road.

[00:12:24] And so because of those two reasons, I stuck with the study until the end. And then fast forward, you know, several years later, I was that girl who needed it, you know, I was the girl who, yeah, more came home and that was almost harder than him being away for sure.

[00:12:41] Christine: Well, and then it’s amazing how these parts of our story and the experiences we have, the things that we learn, that we might not need that in that moment.

[00:12:51] But like you said, it may be something that we can share with others. Mm-hmm. And then maybe later on we need that because we all go through seasons where we need to be on the giving end, and then we need to be on the receiving end. And just the understanding, the value of when we are in a season where it feels like.

[00:13:12] Things don’t make sense and that we don’t see how all of the pieces fit together. Just to understand that there is a purpose and that there is something for us in each and every season.

[00:13:25] Lissa: Hmm. Yeah. I love how you use the word season, the analogy of that, right? Because even you think about it, deployment, right?

[00:13:30] It doesn’t last forever. Even when you go to move to a certain base, right, you get a certain assignment. Usually it’s only for a short a period of time. You know, motherhood is a season. There’s so many things in our life that are seasons, and in the middle of it, it feels like this is all there is and I can’t see anything beyond this, and this is where I’m always gonna be.

[00:13:49] But yet, like you said, some seasons we’re the ones who need to receive. And some seasons we’re the ones who, you know, who are giving to others. And and that’s, yeah, being ready for both. And that’s where I feel like. If I would’ve had some tools in my toolkit ahead of time, I would’ve been more prepared for the season that I was in.

[00:14:06] But that’s just not my story. I didn’t have that. I didn’t know that. But you know what? That just made me lean on the Lord even more because. He was like, all that I had when I was trying to figure all this out.

[00:14:16] Christine: So now looking back, what are some of those tools and tips that you wish you would’ve had?

[00:14:22] Ah,

[00:14:22] Lissa: great question. First of all, a, a podcast like this, you know, people that, you know, have some of that wisdom and are further down the road who’ve been there, right. And can say, let, like, let their hindsight be your foresight. You know, I think that’s really key. I would say too, like, Having some good resources to really understand like what our loved one is going through and what they’ve gone through.

[00:14:44] Because here’s what happened. So he, you know, had been on multiple deployments, several of them in, you know, combat zones and things like that. He had seen and experienced a lot of things and been in, you know, fighter that, that and survival mode for periods of time. And I just started noticing like he was home but not really.

[00:15:00] Right? Like there was like this piece of him that wasn’t there. He was often on edge. Quick to react, sometimes emotional, oftentimes look kinda more on the, the anger side of things. Was having nightmares, you know, like physically fighting in his sleep. You know, somebody, and sometimes I had to wake him up to say, I am not the enemy.

[00:15:17] I’m your wife. You’re having a dream, you know, you’re okay. You know, that kind of thing. And then I started seeing I wasn’t just the enemy at nighttime. I felt more like I was becoming the enemy during the day as well. Like that just, I, you know, it was just like, it was always real tense. And so I think knowing signs and things like that to look for, and I knew in my heart like, something’s not right.

[00:15:37] But he kept saying, I’m fine. I’m fine, I’m fine. It’s not, you know, PTSD is something they make up for people who are weak and can’t handle this kind of stuff. Like, I’m strong, I’m fine, you know. But in my heart, I. I knew enough, but I didn’t have the tools to really say. Okay. Yeah, this, this, this may be going down the road of P T S D or something like that.

[00:15:57] And so the, the last tool I would say is just having a close, trusted friend. And the first friends for me, none of them are military, so they didn’t understand that piece of it, but they just saw enough things from the outside that they were concerned and they said something to me about it. And, and kind of really like spurred on the process of me reaching out and getting some resources and getting some, some specific help, right?

[00:16:20] And at first that was not received really well but it was exactly what I needed. So I needed somebody who was close enough to me that could say, Like it, it doesn’t seem like things are okay, because I’m the girl that’s gonna tell you all day long, I’m great, everything’s good, right? And I would just sweep it under the rug, or I’m just strong, right?

[00:16:37] I’ll just muscle through this and, and make it better. But they knew, right? So having somebody that just loves you enough to be willing to step up and say something, and who

[00:16:45] Christine: did you reach out to once you noticed something’s going on and I need to get some additional help.

[00:16:51] Lissa: Yeah. So I reached out to a counselor and it wasn’t necessarily somebody who was specifically trained in this area.

[00:16:56] I, I wish that I would’ve known that at the time, I still didn’t, even though looking back now, it makes so much sense that it was the P T S D that was causing all of these things. I didn’t, you know, recognize that and he wasn’t at a place that he was recognizing it either. So it was, you know, just somebody to help me kind of sort through that.

[00:17:13] But now, like, I would definitely say like there are a lot of trained people out there who specifically work with the military community, who specifically, you know, specialize in things like, you know, all the mental injuries that occur when someone’s serving, you know, and, and I think that’s what was the hardest part if he had severed a limb, right?

[00:17:31] If, if something physical had happened, then I would’ve seen that on a regular basis. I would have. It would’ve been in the top of my mind. So I wouldn’t have gotten frustrated or personally if, you know, hurt by the fact that he couldn’t do something or didn’t do something right, because I could see, oh yeah, that’s right.

[00:17:47] You don’t have an arm or you don’t, you know, so there are people that come home with that. But, but I think most, you know, most injur, a lot of injuries and most soldiers are probably going to experience some, some level of this are the mental injuries that you can’t see. You know, so all I saw was I felt like I, he was coming after, after me, you know, and I, I saw the, the external thing.

[00:18:07] So my response was to either like, pull back and just, you know, like that, or to try to defend myself or try to like, say something which was not received usually. Just because he wasn’t in a place to hear that. So, you know, if I would’ve had some tools of knowing how to respond, that would’ve been so helpful.

[00:18:24] One book that I found since then, I wish I had way back then, but I didn’t how to love and support someone with ptsd, T S D by Steven Arburn. And it’s from a Christian perspective, which I love. He’s a counselor and he co-wrote it with a woman who’s also a counselor and experienced PTSD s herself.

[00:18:42] And so just, it’s really helped to see like, how do I be that compassionate companion, you know, that doesn’t feel like I have to run away when things happen, but I can recognize the triggers. And then you know, respond in a way that he knows, like, I’m with you and I’m on your team and I’m not on the other side.

[00:18:59] And yet also give him the space that he needs so that, you know, I’m not getting hurt, you know, or we’re not hurting our relationship and things like that. So you know, that’s, yeah. Having some specific resources around that are helpful. I

[00:19:11] Christine: will link that book in the show notes. We’ve, we’ve had a couple episodes recently where we’ve talked more about this topic because I think on, on the one side it’s, it’s great because, There is a lot more conversation about it than it used to be.

[00:19:30] And I think there was always this stigma. You know, when we talk about a physical injury, there’s not the same right. Stigma and shame that comes with that. But when we talk about our mindset and mental health and we think that somehow. Mentally, we’re just supposed to be able to be strong and to know what to do with all these things, even though for so long nobody talked about it and nobody had tools for it.

[00:20:00] How do you support your mental health, not just your physical health, but mentally to understand what’s going on, how our brain actually operates, how we process all of those thoughts and those memories that get stuck inside of there. So I think having those resources and knowing that there are so many more resources available, both to have a starting point.

[00:20:24] Somebody has been down this road and they’re telling me that this is not the place that we have to stay. We can work through this and move forward.

[00:20:33] Lissa: Hmm. Yes, for sure. And it’s interesting that, you know, like there are actual things that happen in the brain. Like the brain is literally, the pathways are changed, right?

[00:20:43] So it’s not just a try harder. Right? Like the answer is, like you said, not just figure it out and just get over it, type of thing. Like there really are thi therapies and things that can and should be done that are gonna help the brain to kind of get back into alignment with where it needs to be. You know?

[00:20:59] And even if it’s not P T S D, I mean, so many soldiers are experiencing TBI i, traumatic brain injury, right? Because they’re jumping out of things and they’re, they’re hitting their head on things and they’re loud sounds, you know, and their head maybe inside the helmet, you know? So all these things, and.

[00:21:13] You know, concussions and that type of thing, it has a cumulative effect. Right. And it really does change things physically about the brain. But like you said, we just can’t see them. So we tend to. Either not talk about them or try to deal with them in a different way, but that’s not the answer.

[00:21:28] Christine: Have you read The Body Keeps

[00:21:29] Lissa: the Score?

[00:21:30] You know, I have not read that yet. I’ve heard many people refer to it. And I know the concept of it. Yeah. Yeah. When your body’s, when you’ve experienced trauma, it will show up somewhere.

[00:21:38] Christine: It’s a lot to read and process, but it was very eye-opening when it comes to this is how it’s impacting both our brain and our body and how it’s holding onto all of those thoughts and memories.

[00:21:52] So that one was really enlightening as well. So talk to us about, As you move through that and, and what this season of life looks like for you and what you are now doing.

[00:22:04] Lissa: Yeah, well, I mean, it’s definitely been a journey, right? From first recognizing there’s a problem to, you know, being able to get the right resources, you know, to like starting to implement those things, right?

[00:22:16] And, and I won’t say that it’s completely gone away. I don’t think it will ever completely go away, right? Like, I think there will always be things that trigger. Those types of things. But I now know how to respond and I can recognize those, you know, the triggers. I can see what’s happening. I can respond in a loving, compassionate way, and yet also have healthy boundaries there.

[00:22:34] So it, they ha it happens less and less. And so that’s, that’s really been fun. But what’s also been cool is like my husband, just over the years and, and you can’t help but, you know, just feel like this happens when you’re in the military. You just, you see a lot of hurt around you, right? People who either are injured or who don’t come back.

[00:22:51] Or my husband’s also witnessed a lot of friends who have like lost their lives to their mental injuries, right? They came back physically from serving. But they were not able to win that war, even inside their own heads and took their own lives. And so just watching that has been really hard for him to see and just saying, how can I bring hope to my friends who’s, you know, he has one friend whose son took his life recently, and, you know, how can I bring hope to someone like that?

[00:23:18] How can I, how can I help our sons, right, who are about to step into some really difficult. You know, in dangerous places and things like that. You know, and, and, and take our, our, our mess, right? And let it be a messes for someone else, our struggle and let it be support for someone else. So a couple years ago, my husband got introduced to an organization called Fight or Die, o a r, and it is an all veteran, all donation based nonprofit organization that is really out there to bring awareness.

[00:23:47] To mental wellness and suicide prevention for for our military members and veterans, because it is, it’s such a big issue and it’s not going away. And in some ways it’s getting worse. The statistics are only climbing. So we need to be aware of it and then we need to be doing things, you know, about it.

[00:24:03] And so this organization helps to do a couple things. Number one, they help provide scholarships for people that are going into careers that will serve service members and veterans down the road. So they have the training they need, right. To be able to help with those, the mental struggles and injuries that that, that soldiers and veterans have.

[00:24:21] Then they also have mental first aid courses. And like you alluded to this earlier, right? Like we take a physical first aid course, we know how to handle, like, you know, if, if we get a cut on our body or we have something happen on the outside Yeah. What do you do? You, you step in and you put a bandaid on it and you get that person too professional, right?

[00:24:38] If that’s needed, and yet we’re not prepared when it comes to the mental first aid. Right. So I think often I think back to, you know, if you wanted to be a babysitter, if you wanted to be a lifeguard, even like work at a camp or you know, even just as a parent, oftentimes you would take a first aid course.

[00:24:53] And make sure you kept your certification up so that you’re prepared, right? And you always, you know, hoped that you wouldn’t have to use all the skills you learned, but you, you at least knew some things to do to help that person in the moment to get them to what they need. And so that’s essentially what these mental first aid courses are.

[00:25:10] What I love is because it’s all donor funded, they’re free to the military community, you know, so I’m, I’m just thinking of like, you know, that military spouse is listening today. You know, who may be experiencing some of these things and not quite sure what to do, or maybe not, but just wanting to be prepared in case that day ever comes either for their spouse or maybe even a friend.

[00:25:29] And this is where I think community is so important, right? Because your soldier may not ever experience mental injuries to this le to this level, right? And you may not be battling, you know, on a diagnosis of some sort, but chances are, Your friend’s spouse will be right, or someone in your circle or someone in, you know, inside of your community.

[00:25:48] And so the more people that can be ready, To step in and to help out, I think the better. And so the way that they raise awareness and raise funds is by doing something that literally stops people in their scroll. We’re four, four guys who are all veterans get in a rowboat and row 3000 miles across the Atlantic Ocean.

[00:26:07] Yeah, we’re talking like start in Africa, which is just crazy. I know, right? Yeah. And there is no resupply, there is no, I’m taking a break. There is no, there’s nothing. Once they leave there, it’s, it’s them until they get to the end. And what’s so cool about it is number one, if, if, and I’ll give you the link to our website.

[00:26:25] There’s a picture I put on there when I created the website of the faces of a couple teams who’ve already gone through this and you look at their face. And yes, their hair is longer because they haven’t gotten it cut. And yes, their beard has grown out because it’s been like 30, 40, 50 days they’ve been out at sea.

[00:26:40] But you look at their eyes like something has changed in them, right? Because they have come up against another challenge and they have fought through it, right? And all of these guys who are getting in this boat have mental injuries of some sort, so to say, Hey. This is not defining us just because we’re done for them.

[00:26:57] They’re, they’re veterans. So just because we’re done with our military career does not mean that we don’t, we don’t have a mission. We don’t have a bigger purpose that we can do to change you things for people and, and help protect freedoms and stuff like that. So it’s gonna do a lot in them, but it’s gonna provide an example to our service members and veterans about, yeah.

[00:27:13] Yeah. Just because you do have a mental injury or a physical injury, or your career is over for whatever reason. Like you can do, you know, important things. And so I think that’s, that’s really important. And then this is the way that they do their main fundraising. You know, whether it’s through corporate sponsorship, whether it’s through just, you know, people like you and me donating or anything in between.

[00:27:33] Because you know, it’s gonna take money to get them get the boat over there and get their supplies and all of that. But then it also takes money to fund all these courses and these scholarships so that, you know, we have the tools in place. For people to access when they need them as well. So I will be household six yet again.

[00:27:50] I told ’em I’ll meet you in Antigua. I am not, you know, gonna get in that boat. But it’s fun. There’s an app that you can track the boat as they go across and see where they’re at. And there’s a video on the homepage of the website that like, you’ve gotta watch it. It’s only a couple minutes long, but like, cuz you’re like row across the Atlantic Ocean.

[00:28:06] What in the world does that look like? So I encourage you to watch it and you’re gonna see the. The good, the beautiful sunrises, you’re gonna see the dolphins swimming next to them and you’re gonna see the hands that are so blistered, you have no idea how they’re continuing to row. But then you’re gonna see the looks on their faces when they get to the end, right?

[00:28:22] And they are coming into that harbor and their family and friends are cheering for them. And Yeah, it’s really, it’s really powerful to do all that. How long

[00:28:29] Christine: does the trip

[00:28:30] Lissa: usually take? Yeah, great question. So there are two different types of boats depending on which one you have. It could be anywhere from the, the record this year was 33 days for the fastest boat up to 50 or so days.

[00:28:41] They’re actually women that go out and do this race by themselves, which I think is amazing. I couldn’t imagine the courage and strength it takes to do that. And it’s from people all over the world. So our team is an all veteran team, but people who do the race are from all walks of life and they’re doing it for all different reasons, most of them, to raise money or awareness for a cause.

[00:29:00] But it’s really, yeah, less people have rode the Atlantic Ocean than have climbed Mount Everest. So it’s kind of a, yeah, kind of a cool thing to say that you did and did it to make a

[00:29:09] Christine: difference. So what is your husband hoping to get out of this journey? Ah,

[00:29:15] Lissa: well, number one they, they’re looking to raise money to really help with this problem, right?

[00:29:19] Like, recognizing this is an issue. He’s experienced it firsthand. We have experienced it firsthand. He knows our boys are stepping into, you know, this, this, in this, in their service. There was a team from another organization last year that raised a million dollars for dogs. So my husband says if they can raise a million dollars for dogs, we can raise a million dollars for.

[00:29:38] Soldiers, right? And to protect our, those who’ve protected our freedom and things like that. So, so part of it, you know, is really the big cause, but I know there’s something inside of him. It’s just he’s turned, he just turned 50. So it’s kind of like that, like, wow, where am I? What’s the next thing in life?

[00:29:52] In fact, there are a lot of statistics. They’ve done studies on people who’ve done the race, and I wanna say like 40 some percent of people have changed careers, have had major life shifts happen after the race because of how it changes them. Like on that journey going across there. So I think it really just, yeah, it’s you and the open water and a couple of guys yeah.

[00:30:12] And life. So there’s a lot of time to think.

[00:30:15] Christine: I mean, I think anytime you challenge yourself to something so far beyond what you think that you’re capable of, there’s no way to accomplish something like that without it completely changing you and transforming the way that. You look at life.

[00:30:33] Lissa: Exactly.

[00:30:33] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And even if you’re not getting the boat right, like, I’m not getting in the boat, but I know it’s gonna change me. Right? Just as I share my story, it’s given an opportunity to share hope and resources in just my experience you know, into the, into the lives of others who may be experienced this already, or may one day.

[00:30:51] You know, and just yeah. Watching, watching him do that and all, all the stuff it’s gonna take to get there, I think we all grow right through something like that. For

[00:30:58] Christine: sure. Well, and I very much appreciate when people like you come and say, let me share my story, let me share. The struggles that we’ve gone through, the challenges that we’ve faced.

[00:31:11] Mm-hmm. And how we’ve persevered through that. Because I think it’s important for us to see people that are on the other side that are, you know, a little bit farther down the road and say, yes, these things happen. Yes, we face these obstacles and yes, this, we can use our story and our experience to shine a light and to help others.

[00:31:32] And that in itself is just very empowering.

[00:31:37] Lissa: For sure, for sure. Can I say something to that woman who’s listening, who maybe is struggling right now? Please do. I just wanna say, and I wish, this is what I had heard. Yeah. I wish I would’ve heard this or known this, and I did. I, I knew it deep down, but I want you to hear, you are not alone in whatever boat you’re in, whether it’s because you’re rowing through the seas, the stormy seas of P T S D or T B I or any mental injury with some yourself, with someone you love, whether it’s a soldier or a family member.

[00:32:03] Maybe, you know, there’s all kinds of, of hard things we go through in life, you know, as in, in relationships you know, with kids or not being able to have kids with, you know, careers and just life happenings and just knowing you are not in that boat by yourself that, you know, there are others who care about you and are, are here to be alongside you.

[00:32:21] You don’t have to just keep rowing and hoping that you’ll make it one day. You know, so reach out, you know, make sure that you’ve got some people in the boat with you. Some people that you can send that life, you know, throughout that that, that lifesaver, that saver that we, you know, often see on the side of a boat.

[00:32:36] There’s a reason for that, right? Because sometimes we are in that place where we need to be rescued or we just need to say, Hey, would you come in the boat and help row with me? Like, I’m just getting really tired trying to do this, you know, by myself. So just wanna encourage her with that. And you will get to, you know, the other shore, it will, it’s a season like we talked about before.

[00:32:54] And you will get there and you’re gonna look back and see how you’ve grown through that, that process.

[00:33:00] Christine: And I would add to that, sometimes it’s very scary to be the one to ask for help. To say, Hey, I, I need somebody because I don’t know how to handle this, but the military spouse community, we are here for each other.

[00:33:16] We are better together, and I guarantee you, if you say, Hey, I need some help, there are so many people that are willing. To wrap their arms around you and be with you, because those of us who have been down this road a little bit longer, we have all been there and we know how powerful it is. And so there’s so many people willing to help if you just raise your hand and say, I don’t wanna do this alone.

[00:33:43] Lissa: And one more thing to that person who’s watching her friend row really hard on the boat, don’t wait for her to ask. My friends did not wait for me to ask, right? They reached out to me and said, Lisa, I think you need some help. We see some stuff going on, so have your radar up. Be be taking care of each other and, and don’t, you know, I would rather be offended by asking if I can help someone and if they’re okay than find out down the road they weren’t okay and I didn’t do anything right.

[00:34:10] So just for that person on the other side, be watching and, and, and you be the one to take the initiative because they may not, they may be afraid to ask or not even know where to go.

[00:34:19] Christine: That’s so good. All right. Tell everybody how they can find out how to support all the re places, how they can connect with you.

[00:34:27] Lissa: Yeah, so you have to go watch this video. You guys, you have to see what this looks like to row across the ocean. On that, on this website there’s also links to the mental first aid as well as if you want to donate. And if you know someone who might want to be a corporate sponsor, there are several different opportunities to do that as well.

[00:34:45] So the website is f o d3.org. So it’s fight or die, f o d3.org. And yeah, all the info is there and you know, there’s also a contact us sections if you have more questions and wanna know more. If you have a crazy loved one who might wanna get in a boat they send teams out every year. So this is not a one and done thing.

[00:35:05] This organization is continuing to fight this fight and continuing to, to put this cause forward. So we’re looking for other crazy people willing to get in a boat and do something like this. Well,

[00:35:16] Christine: thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us. I know that there is somebody that needs to hear this right now, and so I very much appreciate you being willing to be vulnerable and to share your story with us.

[00:35:29] Lissa: Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. I need to hear it too. It’s fun to hear it again.

[00:35:34] Christine: Sometimes we just, if we can go tell ourselves, sometimes we just need to hear it ourselves. I’ll, I’ll go back and listen to podcast episodes. I’m like, okay, I just need to hear that myself again.

[00:35:45] Lissa: Yeah, that was for me.

[00:35:46] Christine: Right. Yeah. Thank you Lisa, so much for this conversation today. We have had a lot of episodes this spring that have focused on mental health, health and wellness for veterans, active duty members and our families, and the reason is that it is such an important conversation. I loved what Alyssa. Said about her approach to mental health and wellness and really building that mental first aid kit because the information and the tools and the resources that you gather today, they may not be something that you need.

[00:36:21] Although I would argue all of us benefit from having a mental health and wellness kit. But whether you. Will use information like this or not. You are going to be able to help someone else with this information, and the more prepared we are today, the better off we all will be. So I would highly encourage you to go learn more about fight or Die, see what the team is doing, how they are working to bring hope to the fight for mental wellness, how you can get involved.

[00:36:56] I will have all the links for you in the show notes, but here’s what I want you to walk away with today. You don’t have to be alone. Ask for help. Reach out. Or if you notice that a friend needs help, say something. I know that we as military spouses like to think that we can just muscle through something and figure it out on our own.

[00:37:23] It’s hard for us to ask for help sometimes, but ask for help. We all go through seasons and we are all better together. If you have a friend who is struggling, who is navigating some difficulties right now, please consider sharing this episode with them. In fact, sharing episodes like this makes a dick in the mental struggles, how we normalize challenges, how we learn to thrive.

[00:37:57] In this military lifestyle and how we can promote mental health and wellness across the entire military community. So thank you for sharing episodes like this. Thank you for supporting our podcast. Thank you for leaving reviews on Apple. iTunes, I will be back in your earbuds again next week. Until then, may you live filled, fueled, and full of joy.