[00:00:00] Christine: It can be easy to focus on the hard parts of military life, the deployments, the moves, the starting over trying to build community, and sometimes we wonder what is it doing to us in the long run and how is it going to affect us? In the future and more than that, how is it going to affect our children?

[00:00:23] Today’s conversation is a reflection on the good that can come out of this lifestyle. I sit down with two women who grew up in the military lifestyle, who met in high school in Germany, and who are still best friends. Two decades later, we discuss their most recent project and how it is both a reflection on and a tribute to growing up military.

[00:02:41] A D Rhine is the pseudonym of Ashlee Cowell and Danielle Stinson. Two authors united by their military upbringing, a childhood friendship spanning two decades and a love of classical literature. Ashley and Danielle first met on an army base in Germany at age 15, and have remained friends across the miles through wartime weddings, spousal deployments, and the birth of six children between the two of them .

[00:03:13] Their new historical novel Horses of Fire is a retelling of Homer’s Illiad from the perspective of the Trojan women. It was inspired by their experiences of military life and is the book they always dreamt of riding together. Ashley and Danielle. Welcome to the Milspouse Mastermind Show.

[00:03:35] I’m so excited to have you here today. Would you each take a turn, introduce us, tell us who you are, and a little bit about what you do today. I’m

[00:03:47] Danielle: Danielle Stinson. Ashlee and I have been friends for a long time. Right now I am both a stay-at-home mom of my four boys and an author in my spare time.

[00:03:59] And that is, yeah, that is sums up my current state of life, I think.

[00:04:03] Ashlee: I’m Ashlee Cowles. And Danielle and I, together, we formed the writing team, A.D. Rhine. We’re co-authors together, so we write, write stories together. And I am also a mom of a three, three-year-old son and a fi a six year old daughter.

[00:04:18] So yes. Also very busy trying to figure out how to merge the creative life and motherhood. And we’re both military brats, I should probably mention that. Yes. Very early on. And we met when we were 15 years old on a military base in Germany. 

[00:04:35] Christine: We’re gonna dig into that. Where are you each in the world right now?

[00:04:40] Danielle: I am in Northern Virginia. And it’s been really interesting ’cause even though our family’s a military family, and my husband was in the military too, but all my family sort of settled here, even though we are not from here. So it’s a great place. I highly recommend it.

[00:04:53] Ashlee: And  I live in Northern Michigan. Which is where my family’s all originally from, but this is actually the first time I’ve actually lived here, so,

[00:05:01] Christine: So does it feel, what is it like to be close to lots of extended family?

[00:05:07] Ashlee: New. Yeah, it’s, it’s great. I think especially having young kids and seeing them grow up with their grandparents, which is something we definitely didn’t get to experience, like just in the day to day is amazing.But yeah, it definitely is an unusual experience to have in your late thirties like, Oh wow.

Growing Up Military: The Foundation of Our Friendship

[00:05:27] Christine: I can imagine. So let’s go back. You’ve just released this brand-new novel that you guys have written together, and I’m excited to unpack it. But I would like to go back to the beginning of your story, each of you growing up as a military child, and I would love for you to talk about what that was like, and then talk about how you met and become friends.

[00:05:50] Ashlee: Well, I think both Danielle and I, we, it was our, all we knew, so you know, we, our, our fathers. Entered the military when we were very young. Actually before I was born and my father retired right when I graduated, right after I graduated high school.

[00:06:08] So it was basically my whole upbringing. It was the only life I knew. And you know, at the time it was, there were things that were definitely difficult, moving frequently, being the main one, not being your extended family, being another. But it always felt like this amazing adventure. My family was very fortunate to get stationed in some pretty amazing places.

[00:06:29] And yeah, I think it, it, it has formed me in, I know Danielle in some pretty incredible ways, and we look back on it with gratitude, with nostalgia, with very fond memories and are really grateful for a lot of the gifts that, and, and. Character and strengths that we were given through that lifestyle.

[00:06:51] And it was only after we left it that we realized just how rare and unique it is, which I think is why it’s something we’re still both very passionate about.

[00:06:59] Christine: I think it’s important to hear that because as many of us have kids of our own and we’re raising our kids in this environment and we’re trying our best to teach them resiliency and help them focus on the benefits, the blessings of getting to live in some places that we would never otherwise get to live in for many of us you always wonder like, What are my kids going to remember from this?

[00:07:27] What are they gonna take away? Am I doing something that is going to help them in the long run or that is going to totally screw them up? So I think getting to hear from others who grew up and are able to reflect on and have those positive experiences is something that just we need to hear that sometimes.

Reflecting on Growing Up Military

[00:07:50] Danielle: I would just like to say, so to kind of piggyback on what Ashley was saying, I would not have traded the way that I grew up for anything, even though it was, as she mentioned, difficult at times. There were multiple deployments, there were a lot of things that, you know, kids who are growing up in a civilian environment probably don’t have to deal with, but at the same time, I feel like there was a sense of not only the skills, but any third culture kid, when you’re surrounded by, when your environment is constantly changing, it makes you so adaptable and it also makes you able to see something from many different sides.

[00:08:21] And I think that one, so many problems in the world could be fixed if we were all able to just kind of get out of our own heads a little bit and see that. You know, everybody’s experiences is, are different. And I think that that really helped us. And even like my parents, you can make it easier or hard on your kids.

[00:08:36] And my parents didn’t always try to make it easy. And I’m actually gra glad that they didn’t, they, when we, we grew up mostly in Europe. My brothers and I and my parents put me in public schools. So I went to German schools. I went to Italian schools and I didn’t speak a word before. I showed up the first day and was like, Hey, I’m the American, what’s up?

[00:08:52] And because you’re, especially when children are young, Their ability to learn is just unbelievable. And I feel like it makes you work those parts of your brain and to realize that you can’t overcome adversity. And so even when it’s hard, those are the things that I cherish most now as an adult looking back on my life. And I think that they, as Ashley said, are what made us who we are.

[00:09:12] Christine: That’s awesome. All right, so talk about when you met, how you met, how this friendship got established.

A Friendship Forged on the Soccer Field

[00:09:21] Ashlee: Well, we were both living in Burg, Germany. And we were sophomores in high school. I had, I had lived there since my freshman year.

[00:09:29] Danielle was the new girl in algebra class, and she, we, we ended up on the soccer field together. So I think that was really where it began. We played soccer together, but we also, you know, bonded over, I. A lot of other nerdy things like our love of reading The Lord of the Rings you know, together on the couch over an entire summer.

[00:09:49] It was pretty awesome. Yes. Our love of, of, you know, whatever war movie was out at the time, and we’d go see it and cry on each other’s shoulders in the theater. Mm-hmm. So we just, we definitely were, you know, booze and buddies from the beginning and, and had. A lot of, a lot in common, even though we actually only, you know, were together in high school for two years and both had to move our senior year. So it was a, it was a brief time, but the roots ran deep.

[00:10:17] Danielle: Yeah, they for sure did. And we were both, I feel like we were united by our love of stories and by. A desire for adventure, I think might be the right word. We were always curious. And so we were the ones that were always like, we wanted to go off and we wanted to see things in Germany.

[00:10:32] We’d take the bus, we do all, you know, we played on a German soccer team, not just American soccer team. And we were drawn together by this desire, I think this curiosity about the world around us. And I think that that’s one of the things that still binds us to this day. We are always like, where are we going on our next adventure? What are we gonna, what are we gonna do? So I feel like that also, Played a part.

[00:10:52] Christine: Talk about what it was like when you moved away and what was it that kept that friendship going that kept y’all deepening the friendship, rather than moving on and growing apart.

Staying Connected Through Life’s Changes

[00:11:06] Danielle: So, at least for my part, I’ve made so many amazing friends through the military and when you’re a kid, especially for us, we moved, except for the first four years of my life, we moved almost every year.

[00:11:16] So it was very frequent. And I made, like I said, great friends and you, some people in your life first season and they bless you for that season. And then, you know, you may not see them again or you may lose touch and that’s totally fine. But every once in a while I feel like you, especially military brats are so good at this and probably, you know, finding the people that you’re like, okay, this is, there’s something.

[00:11:38] Super deep here. And then when you’re able to take those people and not, and grow in the same way, I think that’s what’s the most uncommon thing. It’s not finding people that you share deep connections with, but that you are able to grow in the same directions and you find that you’re still 20 years later, you know, interested in the same things and even the new things that you’re interested in are similar or different in a way that makes everything more interesting.

[00:12:06] Ashlee: Yeah. But also I think, you know, we. We both moved our senior years and we spent like this an amazing summer together, like living at each other’s houses in, in Michigan and Virginia, right before we went away to college, but then we went away to college on opposite coasts.

[00:12:21] Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, there was a season where we didn’t, we didn’t talk that frequently, you know, it was, this was kind of pre everyone having a smartphone, and so we didn’t, we didn’t really communicate regularly, but it was one of those things where, When, you know, we, we would get back in touch with each other.

[00:12:38] We would make the effort to, to, to, to call, to write at certain times of the year. And then when we got back together, we made a kind of a commitment to, to visiting each other. It, then it was like no time had passed at all. So it was both kind of that combination of someone who you can just pick up where, where you left off when you see them again.

[00:12:56] But, you know, even kind of pre the tech easy technology. Like making the effort and being like, this is someone I’m gonna really try to stay in touch with.

[00:13:08] Christine: And Danielle, you talked about having the people that you find that you’re still growing in the same direction. And I know as we go to college or whatever we do after high school, that that is a huge time where so many of us are exploring who we, who we are, who we wanna be, and what was it like to go through that season of figuring out what’s important to you, who you wanna be, and then still realizing, hey, we’re still growing in the same direction. We’re still deepening this friendship.

Navigating Friendship as Adults

[00:13:44] Danielle: That is such a good question. Collecting my thoughts about it, I feel like there. We were always, since we were always interested in the same thing.

[00:13:51] So we went to school, we went to school for different things, but they were still super nerdy. And we were like, oh, we were always interested in what the other person was doing. And when we started writing, we were the first people, like from the notes that we passed to each other when we were 15 to our first attempts at writing individually.

[00:14:06] ’cause we both were authors individually before we started writing together. The other person was the one we most trusted to give that feedback. And so there was that part of it, but also in the ways that we. Our own directions. I think, and maybe this has something to do with the way that we were brought up, but it’s okay to not have everything in common with a person.

[00:14:26] It’s okay to to have areas of difference that just makes it more interesting and to be able to like, to love and accept the other person for exactly who they are. I think that that was something that you kind of grow into, like you have it instinctually as a child, but then I think it kind of gets pushed out of you a little bit.

[00:14:41] But to be able to hold onto that and to to have that as an adult, I think really helps. Deepen our friendship even more. Yeah.

[00:14:47] Ashlee: An an example of that would be, you know I had children a lot later than Danielle did, and, you know, so there was a season where she was kind of drowning in littles and I, I, I didn’t have children.

[00:14:59] But we still, you know, I know a lot of moms kind of experienced this where. If they have friends who are in a different season of life, does it make it a lot different, dif more difficult to keep those friendships going? So I think I really agree with what Danielle said. It, it’s it, our upbringing really helped us see that you don’t have to have everything in common.

[00:15:20] But then when we did find, you know, writing, it really did become the glue in a lot of ways. You know, obviously our shared history and everything else, but it, I think that was also something that really helped us. Stay connected through all the different seasons of life.

The Birth of a Unique Writing Journey

[00:15:35] Christine: I would love to know how the books and stories and writing really helped each of you to process your upbringing and reflect on your life as a military kid.

[00:15:51] Danielle: That’s the big one. Yes, because I mean, we wrote a retelling of The Iliad, which is the Warrior story, and ever since we were young, when we were toge, even, wait, I can remember us talking about this in our teens. It was the Warrior story and we were both drawn to it because it reminded us of the warriors in our lives that we knew and we loved.

[00:16:11] But there was also like these little hints of what was happening behind the scenes and we were just like, you know what? It’s all the negative space in this tale written by a Greek dude, however many thousands of years ago. We can debate that, but it’s the, it’s the, the missing places where we felt like our lives would’ve fit.

[00:16:29] In this tale, and I don’t know if your listeners feel this way, but as kids growing up in the military, we sometimes felt like we were living under the radar. ’cause it’s a very small community, but it’s a very tight community. But a lot of people who haven’t experienced it, don’t even know, couldn’t even imagine what it’s like to be part of it.

[00:16:45] And so you feel like you’re sort of. Living wherever you’re living under the radar. And we were like, that is what, that’s what we, that’s what we connect to. Like the Hector Androy Goodbye scenes, all those things that like resonated with us, but also the things that were implied but not there. And that’s what we wanted to write to.

[00:17:01] So basically our entire purpose and reason for writing the this duology was to kind of fill in those blank spaces with something that we thought we could deliver with from experience.

[00:17:12] Ashlee: And the story is told from the perspective of the Trojan women. And so, you know, we really kind of drew on the women we had witnessed in our lives.

[00:17:21] The spouses we had, we had, we had seen and, you know, what, during a time of war, what they were going through, how they, they formed relationships you know, the different strengths that that came out of, of, of those difficult seasons. And then, you know, I think just process. Processing our own upbringing, even through the kinds of themes we’re both drawn to.

[00:17:42] I know for me, like I actually wrote a young adult novel about a military child. And that was my very first book. And so it was very much a reflection about, about our, my own upbringing. But, but more, it was the theme of like searching for home. I think that that is something that both of us, you know, I would say have in our writing this, this sense of like, what, what does home mean?

[00:18:04] Is home really a place? Is it people? You know, and I think that is something that has, has definitely been a part of, of all of our work, including our most recent

[00:18:14] Christine: book. So talk about this idea for this book. Y’all are on your own writing journeys. Where did the idea to do this book come together? The idea for the book? Talk about how that came to be.

[00:18:27] Ashlee: Well, I mean, I think it, it definitely started with our, you know, we both grew up with the classics and love a lot of classic literature. And as Danielle said, you know, the Iliad by Homer being kind of the, in the canon of western literature, like the war story. And so, It started just with resonating with that, that story and seeing like, wow, this is thousands of years old and there are places in it.

[00:18:53] It, it feels very foreign in a lot of ways, but it, there are also places where it feels like it could be describing what it’s like to live in a military environment today. Mm-hmm. And so I think there was that excitement around. Wow. We could really, you know, mythology retellings are pretty popular at the moment.

[00:19:10] There’s a lot of Greek mythology. Retelling novels that really focus on, you know, the gods and the goddesses and have, you know, a very kind of fantastical feel. And we really, and the Greeks, yes. And the Greek side of it. So one side of, of the war. And we were really, you know, drawn to the human element and really thought like, Hey, given our upbringing, like we can really bring, we think we can bring something to this story that’s been retold many, many times.

[00:19:37] We like something new, something a little bit different. Because of, of our unique background and, and our friendship.

[00:19:44] Danielle: Yeah. And I mean, we had been kicking in the idea around forever. I mean, driving in our respective vehicles on opposite sides of the country, just daydreaming about the story and all the characters in it.

[00:19:55] But I think that one of the moments where we were like, okay. ’cause we, if we had written it from the moment that we had, That the idea had come to us, we would’ve written a very different book because we needed to go through some of those seasons of life. We needed to become others to, to, we needed to, you know, to have these experiences that we had to be able to bring to it all that we did.

[00:20:15] But I do know that there was a moment for my own personal story. My husband, I married my husband was a, we, we got married in Boston and he was in Special Forces group and he 10, you know, we met and married very quickly in 10 days after. We were married, he was in Afghanistan. And I just remember, like I had been rereading the Iliad and we were thinking to ourselves like, wow, that Hector and Androy goodbye scene just hits different because you are like, this is something that is so, has been the same since, since human beings were, you know, in, in, in the world.

[00:20:47] And I feel like that is what we wanted to focus on is those emotions, those bonds between si like sisterhood, bonds. Bonds between spouses, like all the, all the bonds that held our lives together, that held up the walls of our own world. That’s what we really wanted to bring to the story.

[00:21:05] Christine: As somebody that has gone through those separations, you can relate to it in a way that so many people, it feels so foreign to so many people, but we get it as military families, right?

[00:21:19] You know what? That scene that if you’re watching a war movie and you’re like, I know what that goodbye feels like,

[00:21:26] Danielle: Exactly. That’s exactly it. That’s exactly it.

The Catalyst for Bringing a Dream to Life

[00:21:30] Christine: So once you, you’ve been kicking around this idea, what, what really was like, okay, now is the time to do this.

[00:21:37] Ashlee: Oh, 2020. You know, 2020, like a covid lockdown.

[00:21:41] Let’s, let’s

[00:21:41] Danielle: global pandemic. When you’re at home with six children and they’re crawling all over you and your kids are, Schooling from home, which is basically complete chaos as anyone else. I don’t know if anybody else feels that, but I was like, I didn’t know what was going on. And so we just felt like, oh yeah, it actually was having a, actually having a baby at the time, so, oh yeah, bronze Age collapse.

[00:22:04] Ashlee: Here we come. So, practically speaking, it was probably not the best time, but I think emotionally and kind of thematically, like just looking at the world, it felt like, like the perfect time and there’s, you know, There were things happening on the global scene that we, it just, it just kind of lit a fire of like, this, this is the time to tell this story.

[00:22:27] There are you know, moments in the book that I think we really drew from, from life in our experiences in that very challenging season. Mm-hmm.

[00:22:38] Christine: It’s funny because I talk to so many people that are like, this is what came out of 2020, and it’s not like, you know, yes, it was hard for so many of us, but there are so many amazing things that also came out of that timeframe and people are willing to try something new, to do the thing that’s been on their heart for so long.

[00:23:00] So I love that your story really. Originates in that 2020 timeframe as well. You mentioned that things were happening in the world. Obviously there’s a global pandemic, but talk about what some of the current events around the world that influenced how you wrote

[00:23:16] Danielle: the book. Yeah, like the withdrawal from Afghanistan when you’re connected to that in a personal way and just seeing the images of the mothers.

[00:23:25] Trying to get their children to safety and all, all the things that transpired after that just breaks your heart. But it, it just like, it, it did light that fire. ’cause it’s, these themes are oldest time, these themes don’t change because in a lot of ways our behavior, like the things that we are so good at and so, you know, all the best and the worst of humanity has been there since the beginning.

[00:23:45] And we just see these cycles repeat themselves. And you have to ask yourself, you’re like, you know, well, why do we keep doing the same thing? And that’s one of the questions that we. We’re wrestling with ourselves when we were

[00:23:56] Ashlee: doing this. Yeah. Well, like Danielle said, you know, I was having a baby. And so I think, you know, the theme of of being a mother in a dangerous world was a very big part of, of the story we wanted to tell.

[00:24:11] So, you know, I, I remember we had. A conversation, you know, right after one of the many shootings that happened in this country the, it was the one in, in Texas in Wal at, at a Walmart when mothers and their kids are buying school supplies. And we were both, you know, in tears and just, it was both like the rage of, of that, that, that happens in the world.

[00:24:35] And that as mothers, like, what do we do? What can we do? And so I, you know, I think just those universal emotions that I think all parents experience at some point, we really just wanted to channel that into a story that had, you know, were where that anger and pain was allowed to exist, but that ultimately had a hopeful end.

[00:25:01] And so we really, you know, just took those experiences and tried to make them as real as possible.

[00:25:08] Christine: Talk about the process of writing the book and working together with someone that you’re close friends, but you’ve never worked together on a project like this before. What was that like?

[00:25:21] Danielle: It’s a trust fall. It’s like we were already, you know, my dad has been saying since we were 15 that we share half a brain. So it was really like taking that to the next. The next level level it, it was, and the cool thing about it is technology, which I’m not particularly, she’s actually is much more technologically Android than I am.

[00:25:42] But technology now allows us to do things that we could never do before. This would never happen if we were sitting around with ballpoint pen and paper and pencil that this, it just wouldn’t be, you couldn’t do, you couldn’t write the way that we wrote this. So what happened quickly, we used Google Docs.

[00:25:56] We broke it multiple times because of the size, because of the size of our files. But it was, it was definitely a learning experience, a beautiful, creative, just outpouring of many, many things. But the coolest part for me, the part that was how aligned we were thematically and how you would, I would read something she would write and I would just be like, oh my gosh, goosebumps.

[00:26:17] And also how it’s like she was in my head and she knew what was coming next and how all these themes lined up so perfectly because. At the core of it, the story that we were trying to tell was the same, and that was my experience.

[00:26:33] Ashlee: Yeah, I mean, people often ask us this question like, how does this work? Like, how do you practically do this? And you know, can anybody do this? And I don’t know the answer to that. If, if, if it’s just something kind of. You have to find the exact right person. But I do know that, you know, the fact that we had the same vision for the story was so, so important. And I know that is because of our background, because of our shared experiences.

[00:26:59] And ultimately that is what made it possible. You know, take away all the practicalities, take away how you actually divide the labor and do it. It’s, it’s, it’s this, the fact that we. It had this epic, timeless story that, again, has been told many times, but we knew the, the version of it that we wanted to tell, and we were very aligned on that.

[00:27:20] Danielle: You also have to enjoy talking to the other person. So there are moments when we’re frequently texting ly and on the phone and somehow also on Instagram messaging. It’s like everything is a different topic that we’re discussing, and somehow it’s all happening with children screaming in the background.

[00:27:34] Always. I dunno, you, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta really want that person to be number one on your speed dial. I was like, sorry, husband, you’re, you’ve been knocked down, you’ve been knocked down, you’re number two.

Balancing Writing and Motherhood

[00:27:45] Christine: So how was it to try to balance that with raising these six children between the two of you?

[00:27:50] Ashlee: It is it, I sometimes I, I still don’t know how we did it, like, just like very, on a very basic level, like where was the time. But I think when you are so passionate about something and, you know, I don’t, I don’t think I could have just written any novel during 2020. I had a newborn, I had a three-year-old.

[00:28:10] It’s, it was. This story. And so it was, it was the passion we had for this story and the fact that we were gonna do it together that made something that really looking back on it seems impossible possible. And just, you know, we were always, you, you, you got onto the Google Doc the next morning and you saw what the person had written the night before and just like the way, the way that energized each of us it just made.

[00:28:39] It’s it, I don’t say it made the writing easy, but it, it kind of did like, it made the words kind of pour out because it wasn’t just you looking at a blank page, it was a conversation with somebody else. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:52] Christine: And using that to motivate each of you, you know, you’re not in this by yourself. You have somebody else that is inspiring you to keep going on the days when you just don’t feel like it.

[00:29:05] Danielle: Right. Yeah. And also just like, It’s so amazing. Having a families is so important. Like our kids are our world, but there is something about having something that is yours, that you feel like you’re contributing, you’re doing, you’re building something. And I think that especially when everybody was on top of each other and all these things were going on, it became somewhat an escape for us.

[00:29:25] In the best way in the, in the past, whenever we had this like code between us Totally. Breaking the code, but whatever we would, if anyone’s ever read Outlander, we would, we would, our, our like s o s call would be like, take me to the stones. Like, let’s travel back through time. Let’s, let’s get outta here.

[00:29:42] But then it became, you know, like, take me to Troy, a city, a doomed city. Let’s, let’s go there for fun. But it really was like this amazing like, place to go, to get lost a little bit while everything else was happening, which was a gift.

The Joy of Shared Success

[00:29:58] Christine: For sure. So, you know, now here we are in 2023, the book is finally out. What does that feel like?

[00:30:06] Ashlee: It’s amazing. It’s, it, yeah, it’s, I think it’s, we’re still, I mean, it felt real when we were together, sitting at a bookstore, signing copies and that, I think that is when it really felt real to me. And just, yeah, so fun that we, even like the launching of the book was something we were able to, to share together.

[00:30:22] Danielle: Yeah. I mean, Writers. Writers as a crew are not always the most extroverted or you know, we don’t always love the limelight. So that’s something as an, as an author, I did not love the first time around, but doing it with your bestie is so much better ’cause you have somebody right next to you and you can talk forever about anything anyway.

[00:30:45] Ashlee: So it really did make it make it so much fun. Yeah, we, and we just are enjoying seeing the responsive readers and just so many different types of people. Resonating with different, different aspects of the story. That’s always really exciting to see.

[00:30:58] Danielle: Yeah, that’s been amazing.

Looking Toward the Future

[00:30:59] Christine: So what is your hope for this book? What do you want it to be?

[00:31:05] Danielle: Well, so we, it’s the first of two, so we’re actually doing the final edit. ’cause it was actually one giant story that we cut into. Two. Made into two. So the second book, yeah. Forces of Fire, fire, and Daughters of Bronze. That will be out next year. So this sort of is our love letter in a lot of ways to the way that we grew up.

[00:31:26] And we want it to be accessible for, we want people who, who see some of these themes and feel like they’ve loved them to be like, okay, they got it, they got it. And to show how, even the other thing that we haven’t talked about, but I feel like we have to, it’s about the power that you, that people have, even when it’s invisible.

[00:31:43] So coming from our backgrounds, we know that, you know, our moms were military spouses. And nothing got done without them. They were, it was a full-time job. So many of the, the hard work is done by the people that, that don’t wear a uniform. And, and we feel like that has gotta be the same. It’s always been that way.

[00:32:01] And so we wanted that to be a huge part of our focus to show how you can find power in community. You can find power in other people around you, and how that is such an imperative part. Of how we grew up and the way that, you know, we wanted to, that’s what we wanted to show basically.

[00:32:17] Christine: Which is so powerful because it is such a sacrifice. And so many times we talk about being dependents and having all of these things and you don’t wear the uniform, but it is a, a way that you are serving that. All of us are having to make some kind of sacrifice and your, your ability to look back on what your moms did and to say, let’s celebrate, let’s honor that.

[00:32:44] Let’s highlight the fact of what these people are doing to, to make. The, the real action happened. Right. That’s exactly it. And that’s so powerful.

[00:32:56] Danielle: Yeah, that’s exactly it. We were like, what if the reason behind all the things that happened in the Trojan War was actually the women that Homer didn’t talk about because they were women. So yeah, I was like, that’s, that feels real to us. That felt real to us for sure.

[00:33:08] Ashlee: I think Danielle said it perfectly, but just one thing I would add is I think, you know, with military life there. As a dependent, you can often feel like you don’t have as much agency. Like there’s a lot of choices that are made that affect your life in some pretty profound ways that you really had no say in.

[00:33:24] And so that is, I think another, you know, thing we wanted to, to include in this story is that even when it doesn’t always feel like it, we all have agency on some, on some level. And so that is as I think something else we would hope people take away from, from the story.

[00:33:40] Christine: I absolutely love that because that is what we talk about so much here and really having that agency and making the most of the life that we have. You’ve already kind of answered my next question, which was, are you going to do a project together again in the future? But it sounds like you have one on the way for next year.

[00:33:58] Danielle: We’re doing the final edits right now and

[00:34:02] Ashlee: have many more ideas for the future. So we’ll see many more,

[00:34:04] Danielle: many more, many more ideas.

[00:34:04] Christine: All right, so tell us, where is the book? Where can we find it? How can we connect with you guys?

[00:34:14] Ashlee: Well, the book is Horses of Fire, A novel of Troy by Ad Rhine. And you can find it in pretty much any bookstore, wherever you, you like to buy your books. And you can also look us up@adrhine.com and we’re also pretty active on Instagram.

[00:34:30] Christine: Awesome. Thank you so much Ashley and Danielle for coming on sharing your story, and I can’t wait to check out your book.

[00:34:40] Ashlee: Thanks so much, Christine.

[00:34:41] Danielle: Wonderful. Thank you for having us, Christine. We are delighted. This, your audiences are the exact people that, that we. We’re speaking to, so to be on here today is pretty amazing.

[00:34:51] Christine: Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you got a lot out of this conversation, especially if you are a parent wondering what your kids are going to take from this military life. Please go share this episode with others that need to hear this encouragement because we are truly better together.

[00:35:13] Again, Horses of Fire: A Novel of Troy is available now wherever you get your books. And if you have not yet left a show review on Apple Podcast, it would mean the world to me. I absolutely love hearing from you. Finally, come pop inside our free Facebook community and let me know. What topics you want us to cover next on the show? I hope you have an amazing week, living filled, fueled, and full of joy.