[00:00:00] Christine: Rona Jobe is the CEO of Level Up Strategies, a minority women owned consulting firm focused on creating and implementing strategies for small businesses and small teams within companies. As a foreign service spouse, Rona experienced career interruptions from frequent moves due to her husband’s career, which meant she had to reestablish her career.

[00:00:23] Every time they moved to a new post. Luna founded Level Up Strategies in 2020 as an opportunity to make an immediate impact in two communities. The U. S. military and foreign service spouse community And the small business community. Now in its fourth year, Level Up Strategies provides opportunities for foreign service and military spouses to thrive professionally and use their extensive experience and varied perspectives to help small business owners thrive and grow. Rona, welcome to the Milspouse Mastermind Show.

[00:00:57] Rona: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Life as a Foreign Service Spouse

[00:00:59] Christine: I am excited to talk to you today because I’ve had a lot of military spouses on this show, but I think you are probably the first foreign service spouse we’ve had and there’s a lot of similar challenges that we face. So I’d like for you to just talk for a little bit about what it’s like to be a foreign service spouse.

[00:01:22] Rona: So As a foreign service spouse, I think it’s somewhat similar to being a military spouse. However, the environments that we’re in, they’re not in a post. They’re always out there, not in a compound, or in cities, where in sometimes rural areas, where in places that speak no English, for example, my first post, uh, first overseas actually, um, there was a good amount of English being spoken.

[00:01:55] Within the embassy community and some of the parents outside of the embassy community, however, everyone else didn’t speak English. Meaning, you’re getting gas, nobody’s speaking English at the gas station, you have to talk to the teachers at the school, some of them speak English, some of them don’t. I think that’s…

[00:02:14] The biggest component is the language and there’s not always a, depending on the post, there’s not always a community to sort of help you get up and running. So that’s one difference. I think another difference is that all of our posts almost I want to say 90 percent of our posts are overseas, unless you’re here in D.

[00:02:40] C., which is where I am.

[00:02:42] How long have you been in D. C. this time?

[00:02:44] Rona: We have been here since 2016.

Similarities and Differences of Military and Foreign Service Spouses (EFMs)

Christine: So what was the biggest adjustment for you becoming a foreign service spouse and not having that community to help you adjust to the lifestyle?

[00:02:58] Rona: I think the biggest adjustment was the The culture in the new country, I think everyone will agree that while, for the most part, the way that you live your life, you have your own tendencies of how you want to live your life, but when you get into that country, it’s not, it’s not the same.

[00:03:21] There’s a lot of things the same that aren’t the same. For example, I remember one of the biggest. There’s culture shocks left and right, right? One of the biggest, um, bigger culture shocks, I guess, is that in Brazil, um, fresh milk isn’t really a big thing. It’s hard to find fresh milk. There’s a lot of shelf milk, and so if your children are just wanting fresh milk, you’re going to go to maybe three to four different stores to finally find fresh milk.

[00:03:49] So that was kind of one small minor, but tends to be a big part of your… life, especially if you’ve got two small children who are used to having milk and cereal, you know, every morning.

[00:04:02] Christine: So, and I’m sure it was a lot more expensive.

[00:04:05] Rona: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I remember peanut butter. It was like 15 a jar. Did not buy peanut butter overseas.

[00:04:14] So there are those sort of culture shocks when you join the foreign service and your, when your husband or your wife spouse joins a foreign service and you’re overseas for the first time. The bigger shock, I think, that not very many foreign service spouses, we call ourselves EFMs. It stands for eligible family member.

[00:04:36] It’s a term that the State Department uses to describe us when we’re, when they’re talking about who gets to move and what, you know, what, what’s available and all of that. The one thing that EFMs don’t really think about. Maybe some do is how big of a change it will be to your identity if you were in the past a Part of a community now, you’re no longer part of that community which changes your identity a bigger A bigger identity for many EFMs are their careers.

[00:05:13] If you had a thriving career in the past, now that looks very different. How do you reconcile what that identity looks like now? How do you create what that identity looks like now without Sort of falling into a, a deep hole of, uh, nothingness.

[00:05:31] Christine: Yes, very similar to what military spouses face, but on almost another level because you don’t have, you’re not surrounded by an installation where there are other people necessarily going through the exact same thing.

[00:05:47] And you’re kind of in it together. If you are not. stationed at an installation. That, that’s another level of trying to figure it out and feeling a little bit like you’re on your own, trying to reclaim your sense of self, trying to find who you are and how to thrive in a brand new environment. So what was it like for you to have to go do this over and over again, to start over and feel like you’re trying to find yourself, you’re trying to rebuild your life?

[00:06:21] Rona: It’s a little difficult at first when you’re trying to wrap your mind around okay, now what am I doing for the next two years and then what am I doing beyond, right? I think in the immediate you try to look like, you try to look at what your next two to three years when you’re at post actually looks like.

[00:06:38] Typically our posts are two years long, three years long, very rarely. But you do see people with four year long posts, which again are, are, Quite rare. I think when you first get there, you go, okay, what does my life look like for the next two years? What am I trying to build here over the next two years?

[00:06:56] And then how do I now accept that I can only build my life two years at a time? It’s a little jarring at first to think about that, especially when you’ve lived maybe in the same town for the last 20 years or even the last 10 years. And you’ve had an idea of stability at least in the environment or the location.

[00:07:16] So there’s that challenge that I think once you overcome by just piecemealing it, okay, now let’s take a look at one year. Let’s take a look at this quarter. Let’s take a look at this month and What is working as far as a strategy, not in terms of a strategy for that specific post. Like, okay, this is how I’m going to find milk, right?

[00:07:41] May not work if you’re posted elsewhere. May only work in this one country, but it’s the framework that you’re working with. Okay, I know that I’m going to go through this challenge and how do I overcome that? What framework and mindset do I need to be in? So I think it’s trying to understand, what mindset you need to be in two months in, six months in, two years in, that you really have to master for you to get through these.

[00:08:07] multiple posts that sometimes are back to back to back that they end up being back to back to back because even coming back to the United States and readjusting is another big adjustment in your life. They call it, you know, reverse culture shock, which is true.

Reinventing Your Life Every Few Years

[00:08:24] Christine: So did you find certain strategies or things that you were able to learn about the time frame to help yourself, like, hey, I can expect the first two months are going to be like this, um, six months in. Did you learn things that kind of helped you for the more that you did that?

[00:08:42] Rona: Not at first, I’ll be honest. Um, but I feel like I’m a fast learner, just as many EFMs are, and I’m sure many military spouses are.

[00:08:51] You’re going to have to be a pretty fast learner if they’re going to ask you to move every couple years. But I think after a couple of iterations and also making connections and making friends and really learning from their experiences, it helps you to understand what you’re going to go into next. And then you kind of start to look at it from an almost clinical sense that when you go, it still doesn’t take away from the emotions that you go through when you’re actually in it.

[00:09:22] But I have found that, like, in the beginning, you know, find, find people that you’re connecting with, build your community, you know, as quickly as possible if you can. It’s a little different in the Foreign Service world, obviously, because we’re not, like you said, we’re not in an installation. I can’t go next door and borrow a cup of sugar and maybe make friends with that person, because…

[00:09:43] That’s not a Foreign Service family next door. We’re not in an installation. That could be, you know, whoever is living in this neighborhood. So I think, you know, finding, finding your people, finding good people, and staying connected, and Then after that, trying to figure out who else you need to be connected to depending on your, the phase that you’re in in life.

[00:10:11] So if you have children, you obviously naturally connect with other parents that are going to the same school. You’re connecting with maybe people in the PTA. If there’s a PTA, you’re connecting with people in your spouse’s office. And a lot of times they will have some kind of, you know, social events, um, that, that do happen.

[00:10:33] Christine: One of the things that we talk about on the show a lot is finding purpose in each season. And it sounds like when you were moving every two to three years, you kind of have those set seasons. So what did that look like for you to find purpose in each season? And then I would love For you to talk about how did you find a way to look at your life and find purpose and to feel like you could set goals beyond two years out.

LVL-UP Strategies: From Inspiration to Solution in Foreign Service Life

[00:11:02] Rona: One of the things that we talk about a lot internally at Level Up because we do, everyone that works at Level Up is either a foreign service or military spouse so we do have this Topic that pop up and we have an, we always have an internal discussion and a goal to, you know, set your large long-term goals, but understand that these goals may change and that’s okay.

[00:11:27] I think it’s accepting that it’s okay that things are going to change. I may have set a goal, you know, for 10 years from now for me to be doing A, B, and c. But then something could happen like in two years that really affects those 10 years. That doesn’t mean that what I had planned for I’m just gonna fully throw out the window or it doesn’t mean that I wasted my time planning.

[00:11:53] It just means that I now have to readjust and I have to re evaluate if that 10 year goal, one is still a 10 year goal, if it’s still applicable, have things change in life that Now make that goal either impossible or make that goal look a little bit different because I think if you Set an immovable goal.

[00:12:19] It really goes against who we are as humans in general Right. We have seasons like you said we have changes we go through emotions. We go through life changes, good and bad. And it’s, I think you’re really doing yourself and your mental health a disservice to say that, nope, come hell or high water, I’m going to do this in 10 years.

[00:12:45] And I think we need to give ourselves as foreign service and military spouses, a lot of grace. When it comes to setting those goals and when it comes to getting comfortable with the season that we’re in and what it could look like five years from now. We

[00:13:02] Christine: We do a lot. Yes, yes we do. And there’s so much that is outside of our control. And what I love about what you said is that it didn’t stop you from dreaming about the future, from looking ten years ahead, from trying to figure out what you really want in life. But then there’s also this acceptance of, hey, our goals may change either because we’ve changed or because we have some circumstances that have changed our ability to do what we originally intended.

[00:13:37] And so it’s okay for those goals to change. And it doesn’t mean that we don’t set goals. It just means That we’re okay, that this is an ever evolving process. And if our goals change, it doesn’t mean all the work that we did is wasted. Because I truly believe that whatever skills and abilities you’ve learned in each season, those can be transferred and used in future seasons of our lives

[00:14:02] Rona: 100%. I agree.

[00:14:05] Christine: Talk to me about what inspired you to create Level Up Strategies.

[00:14:10] Rona: About several years ago, um, we are in our fourth year now, but even much longer than that, when I first moved to Brazil, I saw firsthand how talented foreign service and military spouses were. And I’ve always wondered, what is stopping everyone from really continuing on with the career that they’ve built?

[00:14:35] As I’m listening to a lot of these stories, there’s folks who were former, you know, attorneys, they were former chief marketing officers, they were former C suite executives, former managers, former directors, but now they’re no longer doing that. And I have always asked myself, why? Do we really sit here and accept that this is sort of going to be a stagnant phase of our lives?

[00:15:01] And at the same time, this is a thriving phase for our spouses lives. And I’ve always thought, how unfair is that? It’s a great sacrifice, and it is a bit of a disservice to ourselves as people, as spouses, that we’re 100 percent supporting Someone else’s career and someone else’s growth while we’re kind of neglecting ours and You wonder okay.

[00:15:25] Is that if it’s a if that’s a personal choice? great if it’s Not a personal choice, and it’s because of circumstances. Well, how can we change that? So that was an idea that had popped into my mind many many years ago, and it wasn’t until we had come back from Brazil and settled back into the DC area that I started working with small businesses that I thought oh They need a lot of the skills that EFMs build while they’re overseas, and that is moving with the changing environment.

[00:16:04] That is getting things settled into a new unstable environment that’s doing a lot of research, applying that research when it comes to actually execute on something. So I thought, wow, what a great resource on, you know, a pool of resources on one hand as far as talent and what a need in the small business world.

[00:16:26] Because when you think of consulting and strategy for small businesses, what do you see on the market? You either see the larger consulting firms or you see the, um, the business coaches essentially. Right? And they both serve a different need. There wasn’t something in the middle that said, we’re going to provide strategy, consulting, a little bit of coaching, and also help you implement this so you can get to the next level of your business.

[00:17:01] And so it made sense to address these two communities that I was a part of, that I am a part of, with one company, and that’s Level Up.

[00:17:13] Christine: I love that. So, I’m very curious, you said it began in 2020, and I’ve heard so many stories about how 2020 was the mark where there was a big pivot. Yeah. 2020 and why then?

[00:17:31] Rona: So I also, I also got a puppy in 2020 and we’re calling him a pandemic puppy but he was not planned to be a pandemic puppy. We had been planning for him for quite some time just like we didn’t plan for Level Up to be a pandemic company. So In 2019, as sort of proof of concept, I started taking a couple of clients in the fall of 2019 to see how this need could really be addressed.

[00:18:04] And when it came to finally putting it together, I knew I needed a business partner. And so I approached Laura Jennings, who’s my business partner. She’s our chief strategy officer and my co founder. Um, because she and I had lived in Brazil. I had seen her run a business in Brazil and I said, Hey. Got this idea.

[00:18:26] It’s a little crazy. And this was, this was in the winter, so this was like in January, I think. Walked her through the concept, walked her through the, the, the clients that are already in, the types of clients that we will be bringing on board, how this would work. She took some time to think about it. And then we were ready to go and move forward, I think, towards like the beginning of March, the End of February, somewhere around then.

[00:18:55] We didn’t know that the pandemic was going to be what it became because there were, you know, some new stories around it. And you, you pay attention to that to a degree, because obviously we’ve got children, we travel and all of that. So it’s very relevant to us. However, as far as creating a business and starting a business right in the middle of it, we didn’t, we didn’t know.

[00:19:17] We didn’t think we would be right smack down the middle of a pandemic. However, it was. It’s kind of a blessing in disguise, and I hate using that term, because it was a very difficult time for all of us to really start a company, start a business, because we had children at home, we had children who were now going to school while they’re here, but We also had businesses that were like, well, we need help with strategy.

[00:19:51] We need help with pivoting. We need help with figuring out what our business now looks like in this environment. And we were no longer really trying to convince people that working with remote, remote consultants and remote strategists can work that you’re kind of forced to do it now. So looking back, would I have done some things differently?

[00:20:17] Absolutely. However, hindsight is always 20, 20. 2020 is going to always be an interesting time, I think, in our lives. Well,

[00:20:27] Christine: I think it’s interesting because so many people took 2020 and they were like, I need to do something different. And then they started something, but you were already planning to launch this thing.

[00:20:36] And then the pandemic happened. Talk about what it was like to build the company and to go from, I have this idea to bringing this idea to life. What were some of the obstacles and what did you learn through that?

Turning A Dream into Reality as an EFM and Small Business Owner

[00:20:49] Rona: The one Big obstacle I think we had when we were putting together level up strategies is will people actually be interested in a fully remote company?

[00:21:03] As in clients and also employees and people that will work inside the business. I think, you know, three and a half years later, we’ve already answered that question. Yes, they would be. The second challenge was, okay, so how do we actually build this? I did a lot of research into how do you actually build a virtual environment.

[00:21:31] I had also done a lot of teleworking in the past, so I had an idea, I had a really good idea of what remote work looks like, what it could look like. The additional challenge on top of that is, how do you now have a remote company that does remote work but is also asynchronous? And that was not a word that was really a thing before 2020, that was a language, you know, that became normalized in 2020 because there was a lot of Asynchronous school happening and the synchronous school happening.

[00:22:08] So the challenges were remote work, remote, asynchronous work. And then how do you build a clientele off of that? Right. We started with, like I said, we, you have these large goals, right? But at the end of it, what do you do? You piece those goals little by little, and then you get to work and you. Tackle day one, you tackle day two, you tackle day three, you tackle week one, you tackle week two, week three.

[00:22:34] So we started with client one, client two, brought on client three, client four, client five, and when you start a business it is really really tempting for you to go hard on either the marketing and business development side or the operations. and tinkering what your, your product or service looks like.

[00:22:55] You could go really hard on the marketing and business development in the sense that you could just focus on what your brand looks like, who you’re going to obtain as a client, and then going after those clients that you fail to figure out what your back end looks like. And so what ends up happening is you get a client, you bring on a client, you get a little too busy.

[00:23:15] You stop marketing and bringing on clients. And now you’re figuring out how to actually service that client. And then you keep servicing that client. You keep working on that client. And as you’re working on that client, you forget to build up your team. And now you’re forgetting to build up your team. So guess who’s doing all the work?

[00:23:32] You are. Which means you’re not going to be able to bring on another client because you’re at capacity with your operations and working on client work. And so, how we have built it is a little bit here, a little bit there. A little bit of operations, a little bit of marketing and business development. And as one side of the business expands, You have to make sure you’re responding with another side of the business so that it can also grow with it.

[00:23:59] It’s like, it’s like a body, right? If you’re going to make that, if you’re going to get from point A to point B, you take a step with your right foot and then you take a step with your left foot. You wouldn’t take a step with your right foot. And then again, another step with your right foot and then another step with your right foot because you’ll go around in circles literally.

[00:24:17] So we’ve tried to really build a Sustainable approach in building a small business in ways that we have seen work either through our own experiences working with the clients that we have or through the research that we’ve done in how to build small businesses and Through the practice that we’ve done in working and building our own business and expanding our own business That’s

[00:24:45] Christine: So good. That’s really helpful to small business owners and to anyone who is starting a business because it is easy to focus, especially whatever the thing that is your strength, right? And you want to pour more into that. But to build a long lasting, sustainable business, you’ve got to look at both the operational side and the marketing side.

[00:25:09] So I would love for you to just talk for a minute about What makes your team so unique and how you are capitalizing on the skills and experiences of these EFM and military spouses?

Building a Unique Team Model Using the Skills of Military & Foreign Service Spouses

[00:25:23] Rona: The one thing that I really truly believe that is lacking in the workplace right now is inviting EFMs and military spouses like us to pull on the real life work and translating that into what professional paid work looks like and really drawing those, um, parallels and building that bridge into, okay, this client needs this and we know what they need.

[00:25:56] You’ve never done that before. Yes. However, here’s what you’ve done before. And here’s how that is actually very similar to this problem. Everything that we do at Level Up, we look at, we try to look at parallels between the research that we’ve done, the work that we’ve done with past clients, and, more importantly, the work that we’ve done in our day to day lives of moving our family.

[00:26:22] I mean, You are managing international moves that span months, sometimes, from the, from the day you find out that you’re moving overseas to the day you actually move overseas, and to the day you actually feel settled being overseas. Most people define that as getting your household effects, you know, and finally unpacking that like that period could be as long as a year.

[00:26:47] That’s a one year long case study and how to manage a project and how to cross collaborate with multiple departments. and how to get the needle moving when you’re not getting a response and how to follow up with people to make sure that your stuff gets from point A to point B to make sure your kids get registered in school.

[00:27:08] So what we do, which I think is incredibly special is draw those parallels and invite and bring those into the business so that you’re getting a good. Sort of outlook into how you’re addressing problems, because at the end of the day, that’s what we do. We help solve problems, we get it handled for our clients, and how do we do that?

[00:27:32] Through professional and through our personal experiences. And that’s really how you invite the uniqueness of military and foreign service spouses into the workplace. And their strengths.

Finding Purpose and Balance as a Driven Military Spouse

[00:27:43] Christine: I love it. Now I would love for you to unpack Because you hit something that I know that so many of our listeners struggle with, and it’s this idea that moving and all of the challenges that go with going to a brand new location and trying to restart your life over again and get settled and wait for your household goods to arrive.

[00:28:06] And all of this takes a lot of time and energy. So if you are also trying to either build a business or find meaningful work. What has that balance looked like for you and for those on your team?

[00:28:22] Rona: If you are moving and looking for a job at the same time, I’m going to tell you it is almost impossible. How do we actually address this inside LevelUp?

[00:28:35] The way that we have built our operational infrastructure is we build in PCSs. We know exactly when a team member is going to PCS and we put a plan in place on who’s going to take over for that. We call ourselves implementers because we implement change and we get it handled for our clients. Someone is going to take over for that implementer for the two months that they’re going to be out or the one month or however some people take six weeks, some people take two months, some people take one month.

[00:29:08] Really depends on that time frame and we put a plan in place to make sure we’re passing the baton and we’re going to be able to pass it back to that person so that the client doesn’t feel a thing. And that allows an EFM to take care of what they need to take care of on the personal side, to move their family and be there and find internet and find a good working spot and come back in so that they don’t have to go and look for another job once they’re actually overseas.

[00:29:40] That’s one positive one. Um, One benefit of working at Level Up, but also we work on career progression internally with each and every one of our folks. The downside to EFM employment, which Is also prevalent in military spouse employment is when you’re moving from place to place to place you tend to just Make lateral moves every time you’re looking for a job You’re having you have an admin assistant job at the last post another admin assistant job at the next post.

[00:30:13] So you’re Your position actually never changes. It’s a lot of lateral moves. What we like to work on internally at LevelUp and what we’d like to see other companies also do is help put plans in place to progress their folks who could be EFMs, who could be working from wherever so that. EFMs and military spouses aren’t spending 20 years of their working careers in the same job over and over.

[00:30:47] Christine: That’s amazing. That’s exactly the kind of resourcefulness and the change that we really need because when you can take the time off to like focus on your family, get that move done, that just takes so much. Stress off your plate when you’re trying to move and you’re like, oh, I’ve still gotta get this client work done.

[00:31:09] And I’m like trying to go to the library to find internet. I mean, that, that is what adds to a lot of stress. So I absolutely love that you offer that for your team members. What advice do you have for spouses who are really struggling right now to build a meaningful career in the midst of all the moves?

[00:31:34] Rona: I think one is to decide on what it is that is important to them in this season of life. If you have said, I’m going to take a break of one year, really accept and find joy in that. I’m not sure how exactly, because, you know, it’s different for every person, but if you’re, if you’ve gone through that work, and you’ve said to yourself, Okay, I do want a career.

[00:32:07] I am going to actually find a career. Then take a look at what you’ve done in the past and take a look at what you could be doing in the future in terms of what actually will bring joy and balance to you as you’re doing multiple moves. It’s a hard question. I think it is personal to every single, you know, EFM and military spouse listening because the answer isn’t the same for everybody.

[00:32:35] It’s true. For example, I, I know folks who have said, okay, well, I’m just going to, I’m going to move from post to post and have a baking business, or I’m going to move from post to post and have a, um, a Pilates business. I’m going to move post to post and do, you know, online, online coaching or whatever it is.

[00:32:59] I think whatever it is that you decide on doing, you need to figure out what is your plan look like now. Which isn’t actually very different from what we advise our clients on the business side. We have a service that we run a lot of our, um, a lot of our clients through. It’s a framework, um, called quarterly planning where we help our clients take their long term goal and it, you know, for if on, on the On the military spouse side, if that goal is to have a strong, sustainable career, that’s, that’s a goal, right?

[00:33:36] So we take that goal and we go, okay, now how can we move the needle on that goal in this quarter? We have three months, 90 days. That’s long enough to make an impact but short enough that I won’t feel so tired it doesn’t feel like I’m running a marathon. So we take that and then we look at what do you need to do on a weekly basis to get there?

[00:34:01] What do you need to do by the end of month one? What needs to happen by the end of month two? So that by the end of month three, now I’ve reached a specific milestone in a long term goal. It’s the same thing if you’re, if you’ve decided that you’re going to have a career even if you’re in this lifestyle.

[00:34:19] What kind of career would I want to have? Maybe it’s not a very specific career. Maybe it’s a type of career and lifestyle balance that will work for you. So it’s figuring out what that is. And like I said, that’s very personal to each person, to each EFM, each military spouse. It’s different for everyone. And then work backwards.

[00:34:43] Christine: Goal planning is applicable to your personal life, your professional life. If you have a business, it’s really being able to have. this vision for what you want, and then be able to break it down into bite size chunks so that you are actually moving the needle without feeling that overwhelm.

[00:35:05] I would love for you to talk just for a minute about The mindset component, because I think there is this sense of discouragement that so many spouses deal with if you’ve had, if you’ve had trouble in the past, if you’ve tried to move and you just feel like you’re laterally moving in your career. And you’ve done a lot to help your team members see that the skills that they’ve learned through moving and through navigating different cultures really makes an impact.

Overcoming Overwhelm and Discouragement

[00:35:39] What would you say about the discouragement and what you tell yourself and what you tell your team members and others in spouses about how we navigate all of the feelings and thoughts that we have?

[00:35:57] Rona: I think number one is find a good community, find a good support system, right? There are those of us who can get ourselves out of a rut naturally, almost naturally, I would say.

[00:36:07] They’re just generally positive or sometimes they can, you know, very rarely, but folks can will themselves out of that. But for most of us, I think that’s a challenge. I mean, how do you… Get yourself up and going when you’re alone and you’ve been swimming in these thoughts, uh, sometimes they’re negative thoughts that are being parroted back to you because maybe you’ve heard somebody else at the embassy or somebody else in the installation say something negative and now you’re internalizing that.

[00:36:37] I think reach out to your community, reach out to your support system. In some cases, you know, find a coach, find resources that are available to you to help get yourself. out of this mindset. Otherwise, you know, it’s going to be a very lonely two to three years. For your next post.

[00:36:57] Christine: Yes, find the resources. That’s why things like this podcast exists to help you get over the frustration to get unstuck and to be able to take those steps forward. So one of my favorite questions to ask is what is your big dream for the future?

What’s Your Big Dream?

[00:37:14] Rona: My big dream for the future is That driven spouses in this lifestyle. are able to find joy, contentment, and progressive careers in the spaces that they would like to, and that there is a strong enough support system, formally and informally, that supports that.

[00:37:37] Christine:  I love that so much. All right, tell everybody How they can connect with you, find more about Level Up Strategies.

[00:37:45] Rona: You can check out our website, levelupstrategies. com. You can send us an email at hello at levelupstrategies. com. That’s L V L U P strategies dot com. You can also find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram if you look for Level Up Strategies.

[00:38:03] Christine: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on and for just sharing your experience and the tangible ways that you are making a difference in the lives of spouses.

[00:38:15] Rona: Thank you so much for having me, Christine.